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Post by moonshine on Oct 12, 2016 18:39:18 GMT -5
We will wait until the vast majority of bands are announced. Went to first 3 , but had no interest in L4. Personal tastes vary , but not really a big Phish fan. Hope we are all overwhelmed by how great L5 lineup is as we had huge fun at first 3! I do think that the brand has changed, but change is sometimes good, sometimes not. Only time will tell. BTW, would love to see Blackberry Smoke at Lockn! Capt moonshine
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Post by cherryghost on Oct 12, 2016 19:20:15 GMT -5
Picked up two the moment they went on sale. Don't need to see the line up as I am certain that it's going to be great.
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Post by worf rat on Oct 12, 2016 21:55:21 GMT -5
We will wait until the vast majority of bands are announced. Went to first 3 , but had no interest in L4. Personal tastes vary , but not really a big Phish fan. Hope we are all overwhelmed by how great L5 lineup is as we had huge fun at first 3! I do think that the brand has changed, but change is sometimes good, sometimes not. Only time will tell. BTW, would love to see Blackberry Smoke at Lockn! Capt moonshine
Blackberry Smoke seconded!
He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.
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Post by thestoryteller on Oct 12, 2016 21:57:13 GMT -5
I don't see it as a departure from the brand. It was a jam festival and there was lots of GD. 
Phish is THE jam band. By themselves they make it THE JAM FESTIVAL of the year.
As far as the GD being prominent...
L1 = 4 - 4 sets of Further
L2 = 7 - 2 sets of Phil, 2 sets of Bob, 1 set of Further and the 2 Keller morning sets. (but bob was a no show so that his 2 sets and the Further set were replaced with the Billy set.
L3 = 6 - 2 sets of Phil, 1 set of Billy, 2 sets of Melvin & JGB and a Keller morning set
L4 = 6 - 2 sets of Phil, 2 sets of JRAD and the 2 Keller morning sets.
Gotta throw Mickey on that L3 list. His two sets in the woods may have not been GD material but the man demands some respect haha
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 7:47:52 GMT -5
If they do end up getting Dead & Co. then they shouldn't even bother with any Phil & Friends lineups IMO. Tell Phil to take a year off.
It would also be interesting to see the effect of Dead & Co. double-headliner on the rest of the lineup quality-wise versus the Phish double-headliner this year. I'm sure Phish costs more, but it can't THAT much more right?
Post by cherryghost on Oct 13, 2016 8:07:56 GMT -5
Based on each band's ticket prices for individual shows, I'm going to say that Dead and Co. demands a higher price than Phish.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 8:10:55 GMT -5
Really? I haven't been to any DeadCo shows, but I figured the ticket prices were pretty equal. Around the $80 or so mark for a pavilion ticket after fees.Based on each band's ticket prices for individual shows, I'm going to say that Dead and Co. demands a higher price than Phish.
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2016 8:12:30 GMT -5 by Deleted
Post by cherryghost on Oct 13, 2016 8:37:40 GMT -5
Haven't seen Phish in a long while, but I know that some of the Dead Co. tickets where priced much higher. Who knows just killing time when I should be working....
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Post by mccjeff on Oct 13, 2016 8:54:30 GMT -5
Been to both recently and they are roughly equivalent.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 8:56:51 GMT -5
Gotcha. Yeah Phish doesn't really tier their pricing, it's just one price for any pavilion ticket and then a little lower price for a lawn ticket. Or at an all-GA show then all tickets will either be priced the same, or all floor tickets one price and everything else a different price. But like the front row for instance doesn't cost any more than the 30th row (face value at least).Haven't seen Phish in a long while, but I know that some of the Dead Co. tickets where priced much higher. Who knows just killing time when I should be working....
Post by Flufhead on Oct 13, 2016 9:54:05 GMT -5
Assuming you're talking primary market. Secondary market would be an interesting subject that I have zero interest in. I'll go ahead and 2nd no Phill this year. No offense to anyone but the Phil/Dusters set was so below expectations for me that it was the last straw.
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Post by southernman on Oct 13, 2016 10:23:21 GMT -5
Assuming you're talking primary market. Secondary market would be an interesting subject that I have zero interest in. I'll go ahead and 2nd no Phill this year. No offense to anyone but the Phil/Dusters set was so below expectations for me that it was the last straw. 
That set met my expectations exactly.
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Post by mccjeff on Oct 13, 2016 10:32:07 GMT -5
I would have to agree with the no Phil sentiment. I enjoyed the Phil/Dusters set for much the same reason I have derived any pleasure out of any of the recent Phil sets and that pleasure has very little to do with Phil. I enjoyed hearing the Strigdusters playing GD music. Just Like I love hearing Chris Robinson sing GD music last year and CRB playing and singing GD music this year. I do fear that Phil is so tied into the other Shapiro venues that it might be hard, if not impossible, to not invite him.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
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Oct 13, 2016 10:35:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 10:35:19 GMT -5
I'm not trying to hate on Phil or anything, I just don't think he adds a lot of value to a festival like Lockn these days with a P&F project. They needed him this year or they wouldn't have had any original Dead members. But if we're going to have all the other living members and Phil doesn't want to play with them, well then let him watch the fest from the sidelines one year, we'll get by.
If it was Dead & Co. two nights and JRAD playing a latenight show one of the other nights, I don't think you'd have very many people complaining about no Phil.
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2016 10:36:12 GMT -5 by Deleted
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Post by mccjeff on Oct 13, 2016 10:38:23 GMT -5
Oct 13, 2016 10:35:19 GMT -5 @stoutmonster said:I'm not trying to hate on Phil or anything, I just don't think he adds a lot of value to a festival like Lockn these days with a P&F project. They needed him this year or they wouldn't have had any original Dead members. But if we're going to have all the other living members and Phil doesn't want to play with them, well then let him watch the fest from the sidelines one year, we'll get by.
If it was Dead & Co. two nights and JRAD playing a latenight show one of the other nights, I don't think you'd have very many people complaining about no Phil.
Totally agree. And for the record I would LOVE to see Phil at his place or maybe even one of the Cap shows. But yeah, not so much Lockn anymore.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
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Oct 13, 2016 10:44:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 10:44:01 GMT -5
I agree though that it's pretty hard to not have him there given his relationship to Shapiro. I just hope that is not an impediment to having Dead & Co.
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Post by cherryghost on Oct 13, 2016 12:45:08 GMT -5
Totally agree. And for the record I would LOVE to see Phil at his place or maybe even one of the Cap shows. But yeah, not so much Lockn anymore.Oct 13, 2016 10:35:19 GMT -5 @stoutmonster said:I'm not trying to hate on Phil or anything, I just don't think he adds a lot of value to a festival like Lockn these days with a P&F project. They needed him this year or they wouldn't have had any original Dead members. But if we're going to have all the other living members and Phil doesn't want to play with them, well then let him watch the fest from the sidelines one year, we'll get by.
If it was Dead & Co. two nights and JRAD playing a latenight show one of the other nights, I don't think you'd have very many people complaining about no Phil.
Having seen Phil at least a dozen times at the Capital and once at his place I am also in full agreement that it would be fine if he wasn't at Lockn this year. Generally speaking I feel as though the band comes off much better when they play at a smaller venue. However if the band that he brings to Lockn is the Q, well I'm down with that.
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Oct 13, 2016 12:51:05 GMT -5
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Post by mccjeff on Oct 13, 2016 12:51:05 GMT -5
Well yeah sure if it's the Q.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
worf rat
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If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Don't worry, he'll tell you!
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Post by worf rat on Oct 13, 2016 13:34:35 GMT -5
Okay, that's pretty cool right there. And you think I have nothing good to say about Phish. Oct 13, 2016 8:56:51 GMT -5 @stoutmonster said:Yeah Phish doesn't really tier their pricing, it's just one price for any pavilion ticket and then a little lower price for a lawn ticket. Or at an all-GA show then all tickets will either be priced the same, or all floor tickets one price and everything else a different price. But like the front row for instance doesn't cost any more than the 30th row (face value at least).
Best Phil show I've seen at Lockn. From what I'm reading, that's not good enough for you guys. That's okay. I'd really like to see him @ Terrapin too, especially for the re-creation shows, but who can get there? That's usually too far for estprofinhumboldt to go, and he's in state!No offense to anyone but the Phil/Dusters set was so below expectations for me that it was the last straw.
BTW: did you guys know about this? The audio has been freely available for some time, but now video: www.jambase.com/article/new-youtube-three-nights-phil-lesh-phriends-1999
I didn't embed, because I couldn't even find them without the Jambase link, so I doubt they're even embeddable.
He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.
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Oct 13, 2016 13:39:16 GMT -5
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Post by smosey wales on Oct 13, 2016 13:39:16 GMT -5
I think your chart shows the departure at L4 from the previous trend/brand/vibe/market.
But more than just a "GD" brand, they also established an old guys brand--Neil Young, Willie Nelson, Tom Petty, Jorma, Mad Dogs, JA, Winwood, Plant, Del, Feat, Santana, Cliff, Taj Mahal just off the top of my head.
Late night and early shows count as half a point, especially at Lockn with one stage. That's the vortex.
Instead, Ween and MMJ as the second tier?
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
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Oct 13, 2016 13:46:06 GMT -5
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Post by smosey wales on Oct 13, 2016 13:46:06 GMT -5
When considering pricing, you have to factor in the #seats as well as the dollars. Lockn is considered under 20,000 people, which Phish can sell out easy--more important in the business, they can fill much bigger. Bands can be referred to as a "15,000 band" or "25,000 easy band" or "not a 20,000 band."
Two shows of Phish, or Dead and Co., will sell about the same number of tickets to the festival as just one show. 28,000. But two nights at an amphitheater with just that band is twice as many tickets as one night--50,000 for two.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
smosey wales
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Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
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Oct 13, 2016 13:49:35 GMT -5
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Post by smosey wales on Oct 13, 2016 13:49:35 GMT -5
I thought Phil was a good fit and did well at L2, except the Winwood thing. He was annoying at L3. IMO it' snot that he doesn't add; it's that he can detract. He won't keep anyone from coming (like Phil Collins would) but he wouldn't be missed.
However, if they filled the slot with just "and Friends" we could have something going on....
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
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Post by mccjeff on Oct 13, 2016 15:05:17 GMT -5
How so? And no way the those late night JRAD show count half. That is just silly talk. If anything they count double. They were twice as good as any of the other Dead you can hear.I think your chart shows the departure at L4 from the previous trend/brand/vibe/market.
But more than just a "GD" brand, they also established an old guys brand--Neil Young, Willie Nelson, Tom Petty, Jorma, Mad Dogs, JA, Winwood, Plant, Del, Feat, Santana, Cliff, Taj Mahal just off the top of my head.
Late night and early shows count as half a point, especially at Lockn with one stage. That's the vortex.
Instead, Ween and MMJ as the second tier?
And if you are suggesting that MMJ is second tier you really need to... I'm not sure but you really need to do something.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
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Post by FishinHatteras on Oct 13, 2016 15:07:47 GMT -5
Can we PLEASE get Big Something for at least a late night jam @ the BRB? Hell...they are from the neighboring state, and def are a "fit" for Lockn.
And by the way...my hats off to mccjeff for turning me on to those guys. Holy Sheet Batman! Just play the live version of A Simple Vision, and you'll be HOOKED! What an amazing tune. I can't play it loud enough!!
They "FIT" as far as I'm concerned. Their horn section tears it up. I fell in love with these guys. Turn it UP! 
Peace Be With You,
Fish
Last Edit: Oct 13, 2016 15:09:10 GMT -5 by FishinHatteras
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Post by Flufhead on Oct 13, 2016 16:05:15 GMT -5
When considering pricing, you have to factor in the #seats as well as the dollars. Lockn is considered under 20,000 people, which Phish can sell out easy--more important in the business, they can fill much bigger. Bands can be referred to as a "15,000 band" or "25,000 easy band" or "not a 20,000 band..
Interesting how venues get 'priced'....
