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TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on May 24, 2017 11:52:18 GMT -5
Not in the least...
May 24, 2017 11:50:15 GMT -5 @endless said:i hope not. But...
unhappy vendors not returning
sparse attendance at spring events
brewmaster beer fest cancelled late
lower crowd count expectations (20k or less)
radically downsizing the venue.
it worries me. How about you?
Did I mention I'm Greek?
Post by southernman on May 24, 2017 12:00:07 GMT -5
Nope,
Might be an adjustment for them.
Post by wizard1 on May 24, 2017 12:33:33 GMT -5
I think they have realized the limitations to the scope of their vision - I think they could have made it a bigger fest with some different lineup choices. However, a jam centered fest which features many of the same acts on a rotation of sorts for every 2 or 3 out of 4 years does have a sort of inherent cap on its attendance. I doubt we see phish again and maybe not even Dead & Co + (insert classic rock guy like Neil Young) as a Dead & Co. level headliner may be limited to one name like Dead & Co plus interesting collaboration type things.
Just pure speculation but I have kind of felt this way a few years now. Although the announcement / new map is surprising, I am not terribly shocked.
Last Edit: May 24, 2017 12:37:31 GMT -5 by wizard1
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on May 24, 2017 14:07:22 GMT -5
Not if this works. Last year, both Phish and the date change to get them was a big risk. If they find the groove this year, it will keep on.
A couple of vendors who aren't coming back for whatever reason doesn't mean they all feel that way (anyone who doesn't do well will always blame the venue, not their own business). Some don't fit. With the combined stage area, I bet the vendor contracts we saw won't apply; they could set up to serve both crowds now--and to me that only makes sense.
Anyway, no ticket holder can judge the economic success of an event like this; which bands, crowd size and vendor busyness don't tell the tale.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by StillLifeStillDead on May 24, 2017 14:21:31 GMT -5
I'm guessing the economics improve without the Oak Ridge lease and capital treatment of their purchase. But who knows.
Post by southernman on May 24, 2017 14:21:40 GMT -5
I think they have realized the limitations to the scope of their vision - I think they could have made it a bigger fest with some different lineup choices. However, a jam centered fest which features many of the same acts on a rotation of sorts for every 2 or 3 out of 4 years does have a sort of inherent cap on its attendance. I doubt we see phish again and maybe not even Dead & Co + (insert classic rock guy like Neil Young) as a Dead & Co. level headliner may be limited to one name like Dead & Co plus interesting collaboration type things.
Just pure speculation but I have kind of felt this way a few years now. Although the announcement / new map is surprising, I am not terribly shocked.
Well, I generally agree with you that it may be an inherently limited attendance (as all festivals are at some level). Anybody know which jam-centric festivals have or had a larger audience? It's not coachella or Bonaroo.
It's Frey festival, not Frye festival and for that we should all be thankful.
Dave indicated that they went hard after DeadCo this year and will go hard after them next year. He also indicates that they go back to Neil Young every year. This is not unusual as I know they pursued Greensky and Moe for multiple years before landing them this year.
Post by southernman on May 24, 2017 14:22:23 GMT -5
I'm guessing the economics improve without the Oak Ridge lease and capital treatment of their purchase. But who knows.
They are still into Oak Ridge for some part fo the lease, as they are still utilizing part of the property, if not the racetrack.
mccjeff
Merry Prankster
Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on May 24, 2017 14:29:37 GMT -5
True, but a lot of us have been festivaling for a while and know what one that is running into trouble looks and acts like. I may not know the business of it but I can somewhat read the signs. In my experience, a major scaling back has seldom, if ever, been a good sign for the long term prospects of a festival. Hoping this is the exception.Not if this works. Last year, both Phish and the date change to get them was a big risk. If they find the groove this year, it will keep on.
A couple of vendors who aren't coming back for whatever reason doesn't mean they all feel that way (anyone who doesn't do well will always blame the venue, not their own business). Some don't fit. With the combined stage area, I bet the vendor contracts we saw won't apply; they could set up to serve both crowds now--and to me that only makes sense.
Anyway, no ticket holder can judge the economic success of an event like this; which bands, crowd size and vendor busyness don't tell the tale.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
mccjeff
Merry Prankster
Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on May 24, 2017 14:32:54 GMT -5
This is a different situation with them owning the land. The normal rules of festival health ebb and flow may not track out as inevitably as history would indicate. Hopefully this is a positive sign but it sure doesn't feel like it.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
Post by southernman on May 24, 2017 14:35:36 GMT -5
This is a different situation with them owning the land. The normal rules of festival health ebb and flow may not track out as inevitably as history would indicate. Hopefully this is a positive sign but it sure doesn't feel like it.
They say they have MORE room in the main venue. It sure doesn't look like it to me. I do think putting all the venue on their own land was always part of the long term plan. It makes sense from that perspective. They are still in a long term partnership w/ Oak Ridge, though, because they still need to use a lot of that land for camping.
TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on May 24, 2017 14:46:58 GMT -5
I have nothing but positive feelings about these changes. Doesn't mean that I like them all but I have a good feeling about the future of Lockn after watching Frey's interview. I am a glass half full kind of guy so maybe that has something to do with it.This is a different situation with them owning the land. The normal rules of festival health ebb and flow may not track out as inevitably as history would indicate. Hopefully this is a positive sign but it sure doesn't feel like it.
Did I mention I'm Greek?
mccjeff
Merry Prankster
Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on May 24, 2017 14:53:27 GMT -5
No, I think the rotating stage is in the old Infinity Downs NOT in the BRB bowl.May 24, 2017 14:51:13 GMT -5 @endless said:As much as I will miss the race track field, which to me made Lockn very distinctive, having everything at BRB means a super short walk for everyone.
As for stage placement, BRB is a hillside and it seems as though both stages must be at the bottom of the hill. As you cannot see the BRBstage from the old Infinity Downs beer garden area because of a hill and some trees, I assume it will be a vending site?
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 15:21:18 GMT -5
Ok, thanks. That old Infinity Downs area isn't very big, as I recall, maybe two football fields (4 acres)? Should be interesting.No, I think the rotating stage is in the old Infinity Downs NOT in the BRB bowl.May 24, 2017 14:51:13 GMT -5 @endless said:As much as I will miss the race track field, which to me made Lockn very distinctive, having everything at BRB means a super short walk for everyone.
As for stage placement, BRB is a hillside and it seems as though both stages must be at the bottom of the hill. As you cannot see the BRBstage from the old Infinity Downs beer garden area because of a hill and some trees, I assume it will be a vending site?
mccjeff
Merry Prankster
Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on May 24, 2017 15:29:16 GMT -5
Interesting is a word.May 24, 2017 15:21:18 GMT -5 @endless said:Ok, thanks. That old Infinity Downs area isn't very big, as I recall, maybe two football fields (4 acres)? Should be interesting.No, I think the rotating stage is in the old Infinity Downs NOT in the BRB bowl.
And I agree. From my memory I don't recall that being that big an area. But like I said, that is based off of my spotty at best memory and I don't know that I really explored the boundaries of that area. More just glanced at it on my way somewhere else.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
Bird700level
Old Head
Posts: 1,822
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: David Hasselhoff
Number of LOCKNs attended: 3
Post by Bird700level on May 24, 2017 15:34:32 GMT -5
Im going to guess 7:10 - 8:33 is about the depth of the new main stage area
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 15:58:39 GMT -5
wH What'd he say about moeing the grass I have nothing but positive feelings about these changes. Doesn't mean that I like them all but I have a good feeling about the future of Lockn after watching Frey's interview. I am a glass half full kind of guy so maybe that has something to do with it.This is a different situation with them owning the land. The normal rules of festival health ebb and flow may not track out as inevitably as history would indicate. Hopefully this is a positive sign but it sure doesn't feel like it.
or 
?
TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on May 24, 2017 16:00:23 GMT -5
He dodged the tough questions like mine. wH What'd he say about moeing the grass I have nothing but positive feelings about these changes. Doesn't mean that I like them all but I have a good feeling about the future of Lockn after watching Frey's interview. I am a glass half full kind of guy so maybe that has something to do with it. or ?
Did I mention I'm Greek?
mccjeff
Merry Prankster
Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on May 24, 2017 16:02:47 GMT -5
Who has the skills to superimpose the new map over google map satellite view?
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
buddy74
Old Head
Posts: 2,215
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Carlos Santana
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by buddy74 on May 24, 2017 16:52:05 GMT -5
I noticed that. He didn't seem to want to say much about the ADA issues either. He dodged the tough questions like mine. 
jrtmom
Old Head
Posts: 1,087
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECK
Post by jrtmom on May 24, 2017 17:09:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd like to see that, too. The map on the website looks like it was made by a starving abstract artist.Who has the skills to superimpose the new map over google map satellite view?
jrtmom
Old Head
Posts: 1,087
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECK
Post by jrtmom on May 24, 2017 17:15:42 GMT -5
By comparison here is the map for the Festy this year, which is at the same place.
Post by wizard1 on May 24, 2017 17:17:24 GMT -5
Technically anyone with Google Earth, but give me a secondWho has the skills to superimpose the new map over google map satellite view?
Post by wizard1 on May 24, 2017 17:23:19 GMT -5
ok well i did it but i don't have an image hosting account
- it looks awesome though, take my word for it
Last Edit: May 24, 2017 17:23:37 GMT -5 by wizard1
jrtmom
Old Head
Posts: 1,087
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECKBECK
Post by jrtmom on May 24, 2017 17:29:29 GMT -5
Aww, man, such a tease...
TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on May 24, 2017 17:34:01 GMT -5
locknforum.com/thread/2952/lockn-2017-map-editionTechnically anyone with Google Earth, but give me a secondWho has the skills to superimpose the new map over google map satellite view?
Did I mention I'm Greek?
