Welcome to the Lockn' Forum - The home of the original Lockn' Music Festival family!
It was hot a L2. I hear it gets hot at Bonnaroo and ACL. But to your point--the pros know that what brings people back is "the overall festival experience" and if heat, or some other factor (often weather) results in a bad time, many won't risk it again. I think we'd agree that perception drives the market far more than facts. However, to your facts, I think you need to discount the value of the early shows (grateful grass gospel) as a ticket seller, no matter how enjoyable they are. But I'd add in Allman Brothers, Moon Alice, Mule and maybe a few other acts as being the same market. Maybe Winwood there. And then, who's closer to the Dead fan base: WSP? SCI? As for counting JRAD Late Night as heavily as the others, I think--and I could be wrong on this one--that neither "JRAD" nor "late night" sells a lot of tickets--not enough for a swing. JRAD does not have the name recognition no matter how good they are or how loyal their fans are. My east coast perspective says DSO would outsell them--again, nothing to do with actual talent. I'd like to hear from pros how important late night is to sales; I can't opine due to my lack of experience and lack of appeal personally. Please note: This forum is in no way officially associated with Lockn' Festival or its promoters.
TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on Jul 21, 2017 8:58:00 GMT -5
Keep in mind that adding more capacity is as simple as tree removal. But if we remove more trees will there be enough oxygen produced by the remaining trees to account for the additional crowds? Man I hope they think this through first...
Did I mention I'm Greek?
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 21, 2017 9:51:55 GMT -5
I see the Phish move as having a big effect, but not because of the Phishheads themselves who attended.
The promoters at the time made a bold (risky) move to get Phish at Lockn, which cost them huge bucks but also required them to change the date. Granted, there are pros and cons to either the old or new dates, and of course, they spin the pros of the new date. Although statistically there is no material variation in weather between the two weeks, the market, driven by emotion, says "August is hotter than September" and neither facts nor logic will move that sentiment.
Bringing Phish to the fourth year of the festival changed its branding as a Dead-centric fest, compiled with having headliners MMJ and Ween. That cost the fest its momentum and confused the brand. But the move was probably driven by a way to deal with the competition of the Farethewell and related real Dead shows.
This year they go back to the brand. But anecdotes of members here aside, the Dead Co tour has sucked out lots of ticket sales for a Dead-centric summer fest. That is a major reason for the low numbers.
Now, if they can make this year profitable with the lower attendance and corresponding lower costs, and re-establish the brand, then this will be a great time this year and a greater time next year.
That and change back to September for Sue.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by Flufhead on Jul 21, 2017 10:04:50 GMT -5
I'm in the camp it's all about lineup and weather.
mccjeff
Merry Prankster
Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on Jul 21, 2017 10:41:15 GMT -5
I agree that the perception was it moved away from a GD-centric festival but L4 was just as representative as years before. It's just that the GD sets were not the "headliner" sets. However, I would strongly argue that the 2 JRAD latenights were the best GD ever played at Lockn'. And at L2 RatBob didn't play but we got a Billy All Star Band.I see the Phish move as having a big effect, but not because of the Phishheads themselves who attended.
The promoters at the time made a bold (risky) move to get Phish at Lockn, which cost them huge bucks but also required them to change the date. Granted, there are pros and cons to either the old or new dates, and of course, they spin the pros of the new date. Although statistically there is no material variation in weather between the two weeks, the market, driven by emotion, says "August is hotter than September" and neither facts nor logic will move that sentiment.
Bringing Phish to the fourth year of the festival changed its branding as a Dead-centric fest, compiled with having headliners MMJ and Ween. That cost the fest its momentum and confused the brand. But the move was probably driven by a way to deal with the competition of the Farethewell and related real Dead shows.
This year they go back to the brand. But anecdotes of members here aside, the Dead Co tour has sucked out lots of ticket sales for a Dead-centric summer fest. That is a major reason for the low numbers.
Now, if they can make this year profitable with the lower attendance and corresponding lower costs, and re-establish the brand, then this will be a great time this year and a greater time next year.
That and change back to September for Sue.
2013 – L1 (4 GD sets)
Furthur – 4X
2014 – L2 (7 GD sets)
RatBob – 2X
Furthur
Phil & Friends – 2X
Grateful Grass
Grateful Gospel
2015 – L3 (6 GD sets)
Billy & the Kids
Phil & Friends – 2X
Melvin Seals & JGB – 2X
Grateful Gospel
2016 – L4 (6 GD sets)
Phil & Friends – 2X
JRAD – 2X
Grateful Grass
Grateful Gospel
2017 – L5 (6 GD sets)
Phil & Bob Terrapin
Phil & Family
phil.moe.
JRAD – 2X
Grateful Gospel
Not counting Avetts w/Bob
Last Edit: Jul 21, 2017 10:43:19 GMT -5 by mccjeff
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
Post by southernman on Jul 21, 2017 10:51:58 GMT -5
Phish got the largest audience to Lockn. Sort of bizarre reasoning to blame Phish for attendance woes on a year they are not on the bill.
I'm not particularly a Phish fan and did not like the long breaks in music their set had. But there is no denying that they brought a crowd.
mccjeff
Merry Prankster
Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on Jul 21, 2017 10:57:28 GMT -5
Yes they did. And most of that crowd that came because of Phish is not returning. The perceived issue is that the GD crowd that decided to stay away last year because of weird notions about it becoming a Phish Phest are not returning in as large a numbers this year.Phish got the largest audience to Lockn. Sort of bizarre reasoning to blame Phish for attendance woes on a year they are not on the bill. 
I'm not particularly a Phish fan and did not like the long breaks in music their set had. But there is no denying that they brought a crowd.
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
Post by southernman on Jul 21, 2017 11:04:39 GMT -5
Yes they did. And most of that crowd that came because of Phish is not returning. The perceived issue is that the GD crowd that decided to stay away last year because of weird notions about it becoming a Phish Phest are not returning in as large a numbers this year.Phish got the largest audience to Lockn. Sort of bizarre reasoning to blame Phish for attendance woes on a year they are not on the bill.
I'm not particularly a Phish fan and did not like the long breaks in music their set had. But there is no denying that they brought a crowd.
I'm more inclined to put blame, such that blame placing is necessary, on the heat. It was brutal last year.
Plus the lineup. Again, it has a been there, done that feel to it.
pawpawx4
Dark Star
Posts: 1
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Little Feat
Number of LOCKNs attended: 4
Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 21, 2017 12:18:20 GMT -5
jrtmom, thelizard, and 1 more like this
Post by pawpawx4 on Jul 21, 2017 12:18:20 GMT -5
Hello fellow forumers, not sure what the bellyaching is about..Less bodies and Still a Great lineup..Peace from an old hippie
Bird700level
Old Head
Posts: 1,822
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: David Hasselhoff
Number of LOCKNs attended: 3
Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 21, 2017 12:35:20 GMT -5
via mobile
mccjeff likes this
Post by Bird700level on Jul 21, 2017 12:35:20 GMT -5
Hello fellow forumers, not sure what the bellyaching is about..Less bodies and Still a Great lineup..Peace from an old hippie
More concern for the future. Not so much this year.
TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on Jul 21, 2017 12:38:23 GMT -5
Welcome to the board! Please don't feed the animals...Hello fellow forumers, not sure what the bellyaching is about..Less bodies and Still a Great lineup..Peace from an old hippie
Did I mention I'm Greek?
thelizard
Old Head
This is so much FUN!!
Posts: 1,799
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Neil Young
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by thelizard on Jul 21, 2017 12:42:53 GMT -5
The first year of Lockn' they hired a private security firm. Remember the mounted red shirts?Lockn’ has also re-engaged Nelson County Sheriff Department and Lovingston Fire Department for their services.
Are those two services even open for bidding? I cant imagine they would be.
I'm not signing this!
TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on Jul 21, 2017 12:47:42 GMT -5
The first year of Lockn' they hired a private security firm. Remember the mounted red shirts?Lockn’ has also re-engaged Nelson County Sheriff Department and Lovingston Fire Department for their services.
Are those two services even open for bidding? I cant imagine they would be.
Did I mention I'm Greek?
thelizard
Old Head
This is so much FUN!!
Posts: 1,799
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Neil Young
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by thelizard on Jul 21, 2017 12:52:51 GMT -5
Yea, I'm happy. What's not to be happy about?Not capped but only anticipating 15K this year. Spin that as happy as you want but that is a significant drop.
I'm not signing this!
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 21, 2017 13:03:35 GMT -5
I'm more inclined to put blame, such that blame placing is necessary, on the heat. It was brutal last year.Yes they did. And most of that crowd that came because of Phish is not returning. The perceived issue is that the GD crowd that decided to stay away last year because of weird notions about it becoming a Phish Phest are not returning in as large a numbers this year.
Plus the lineup. Again, it has a been there, done that feel to it.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by baltimoremule on Jul 21, 2017 13:11:03 GMT -5
Hey all,
Long time reader/troller of the board but don't comment much. My question to the group is how will The Festy play a role in the future of Lockn? Lockn can't move into September or it will impact who goes to Festy imo. Will the combine them so that Lockn can move to become a Fall festival? Not a lot of fall festivals along the Northeast and could really take off.
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 21, 2017 13:14:25 GMT -5
I agree that the perception was it moved away from a GD-centric festival but L4 was just as representative as years before. It's just that the GD sets were not the "headliner" sets. However, I would strongly argue that the 2 JRAD latenights were the best GD ever played at Lockn'. And at L2 RatBob didn't play but we got a Billy All Star Band.I see the Phish move as having a big effect, but not because of the Phishheads themselves who attended.
The promoters at the time made a bold (risky) move to get Phish at Lockn, which cost them huge bucks but also required them to change the date. Granted, there are pros and cons to either the old or new dates, and of course, they spin the pros of the new date. Although statistically there is no material variation in weather between the two weeks, the market, driven by emotion, says "August is hotter than September" and neither facts nor logic will move that sentiment.
Bringing Phish to the fourth year of the festival changed its branding as a Dead-centric fest, compiled with having headliners MMJ and Ween. That cost the fest its momentum and confused the brand. But the move was probably driven by a way to deal with the competition of the Farethewell and related real Dead shows.
This year they go back to the brand. But anecdotes of members here aside, the Dead Co tour has sucked out lots of ticket sales for a Dead-centric summer fest. That is a major reason for the low numbers.
Now, if they can make this year profitable with the lower attendance and corresponding lower costs, and re-establish the brand, then this will be a great time this year and a greater time next year.
That and change back to September for Sue.
2013 – L1 (4 GD sets)
Furthur – 4X
2014 – L2 (7 GD sets)
RatBob – 2X
Furthur
Phil & Friends – 2X
Grateful Grass
Grateful Gospel
2015 – L3 (6 GD sets)
Billy & the Kids
Phil & Friends – 2X
Melvin Seals & JGB – 2X
Grateful Gospel
2016 – L4 (6 GD sets)
Phil & Friends – 2X
JRAD – 2X
Grateful Grass
Grateful Gospel
2017 – L5 (6 GD sets)
Phil & Bob Terrapin
Phil & Family
phil.moe.
JRAD – 2X
Grateful Gospel
Not counting Avetts w/Bob
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 21, 2017 13:18:51 GMT -5
That will come into play after they assess whether this year's Lockn was profitable.Hey all,
Long time reader/troller of the board but don't comment much. My question to the group is how will The Festy play a role in the future of Lockn? Lockn can't move into September or it will impact who goes to Festy imo. Will the combine them so that Lockn can move to become a Fall festival? Not a lot of fall festivals along the Northeast and could really take off.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by southernman on Jul 21, 2017 13:32:04 GMT -5
The first year of Lockn' they hired a private security firm. Remember the mounted red shirts?Lockn’ has also re-engaged Nelson County Sheriff Department and Lovingston Fire Department for their services.
Are those two services even open for bidding? I cant imagine they would be.
Was that in addition to, or instead of the Nelson Co Sherriff?? They have had some private security every year.
Post by baltimoremule on Jul 21, 2017 13:36:26 GMT -5
I hear yeah Smosey. May have been the plan all along. This will be my third Lockn. Missed the first one and skipped last year due to Phish. Coming back this year and I am very excited that they are making it a more intimate festival. As for Festy, been the last two years and really enjoyed both years until the food truck fire last year. Combining Blue grass and Jam into one festival makes a lot of sense to me. Lockn to me is slowly evolving into a new version of AllGood with better vision and management in place. Hopefully they do not succumb to the EDM movement or I will have to move on.
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 21, 2017 13:56:04 GMT -5
I don't think they'll do that! And I think we'll find improvement in management ability as it matures.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by Flufhead on Jul 21, 2017 14:27:23 GMT -5
Festy just rents out the space. Two different management groups. I wouldn't be surprised to see Festy grow significantly over the next few years though.
Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 21, 2017 14:54:14 GMT -5
TOO $, StillLifeStillDead, and 2 more like this
Post by Donna on Jul 21, 2017 14:54:14 GMT -5
I'm a Donna Godchaux wanna be.
Stevestock 4/1-4/4
Suggesting Rhythm 420 4/20
About Time 4/29-5/01
Keller Williams 5/14 & 5/15
Suggesting Rhythm - Riverrock 5/20
Dead & Company Bristow, VA 7/8
Phish Raleigh, NC 7/29
Jam Packed Brown's Island 8/13
Outlaw Music Fest - Billy Strings 9/11
Be Kind Music Festival 9/23 - 9/25
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 21, 2017 15:06:44 GMT -5
TOO $, thelizard, and 1 more like this
Post by smosey wales on Jul 21, 2017 15:06:44 GMT -5
Last night at Robert Earl Keen before the show I ran into a friend's teenage son who said, "I bet you wish it was the Grateful Dead up there!" Then in the show, REK had stepped off the stage for a moment and the band was kinda noodling what was the intro to Dreadful Selfish Crime--but Rich Brotherington (lead) starts something familiar and damned if he didn't give us a few lines of China Cat! Then REK came back; they did Dreadful, then morphed right into a rousing jam of I Know You Rider--which really works well for that band--high talent Americana. The crowd loved it even though few caught the intro and I bet many didn't know it was a Dead song. I was on the rail and could yell to Rich when it was over "Happy Birthday Jerry!" Talking to him later, he didn't realize this was Birthday Month and was glad to know.
And thus the world was made better, at least in that hall in myhomeinnorfolkvirginia.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 21, 2017 15:22:32 GMT -5
TOO $, smosey wales, and 2 more like this
Post by Donna on Jul 21, 2017 15:22:32 GMT -5
I'm a Donna Godchaux wanna be.
Stevestock 4/1-4/4
Suggesting Rhythm 420 4/20
About Time 4/29-5/01
Keller Williams 5/14 & 5/15
Suggesting Rhythm - Riverrock 5/20
Dead & Company Bristow, VA 7/8
Phish Raleigh, NC 7/29
Jam Packed Brown's Island 8/13
Outlaw Music Fest - Billy Strings 9/11
Be Kind Music Festival 9/23 - 9/25
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 21, 2017 15:51:28 GMT -5
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
