Welcome to the Lockn' Forum - The home of the original Lockn' Music Festival family!
I think we'd agree that perception drives the market far more than facts. However, to your facts, I think you need to discount the value of the early shows (grateful grass gospel) as a ticket seller, no matter how enjoyable they are. But I'd add in Allman Brothers, Moon Alice, Mule and maybe a few other acts as being the same market. Maybe Winwood there. And then, who's closer to the Dead fan base: WSP? SCI? As for counting JRAD Late Night as heavily as the others, I think--and I could be wrong on this one--that neither "JRAD" nor "late night" sells a lot of tickets--not enough for a swing. JRAD does not have the name recognition no matter how good they are or how loyal their fans are. My east coast perspective says DSO would outsell them--again, nothing to do with actual talent. I'd like to hear from pros how important late night is to sales; I can't opine due to my lack of experience and lack of appeal personally. I think we'd agree that perception drives the market far more than facts. However, to your facts, I think you need to discount the value of the early shows (grateful grass gospel) as a ticket seller, no matter how enjoyable they are. But I'd add in Allman Brothers, Moon Alice, Mule and maybe a few other acts as being the same market. Maybe Winwood there. And then, who's closer to the Dead fan base: WSP? SCI? As for counting JRAD Late Night as heavily as the others, I think--and I could be wrong on this one--that neither "JRAD" nor "late night" sells a lot of tickets--not enough for a swing. JRAD does not have the name recognition no matter how good they are or how loyal their fans are. My east coast perspective says DSO would outsell them--again, nothing to do with actual talent. I'd like to hear from pros how important late night is to sales; I can't opine due to my lack of experience and lack of appeal personally. I think we'd agree that perception drives the market far more than facts. However, to your facts, I think you need to discount the value of the early shows (grateful grass gospel) as a ticket seller, no matter how enjoyable they are. But I'd add in Allman Brothers, Moon Alice, Mule and maybe a few other acts as being the same market. Maybe Winwood there. And then, who's closer to the Dead fan base: WSP? SCI? As for counting JRAD Late Night as heavily as the others, I think--and I could be wrong on this one--that neither "JRAD" nor "late night" sells a lot of tickets--not enough for a swing. JRAD does not have the name recognition no matter how good they are or how loyal their fans are. My east coast perspective says DSO would outsell them--again, nothing to do with actual talent. I'd like to hear from pros how important late night is to sales; I can't opine due to my lack of experience and lack of appeal personally. Please note: This forum is in no way officially associated with Lockn' Festival or its promoters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 16:44:54 GMT -5
Freshly moed' grass produces more O2 than trees Keep in mind that adding more capacity is as simple as tree removal. But if we remove more trees will there be enough oxygen produced by the remaining trees to account for the additional crowds? Man I hope they think this through first...
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Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 21, 2017 18:02:20 GMT -5
smosey wales and estprofinhumboldt like this
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 18:02:20 GMT -5
mccjeff
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Look, a squirrel!
Posts: 7,848
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: BIG Something
Post by mccjeff on Jul 21, 2017 19:03:02 GMT -5
I agree about the morning sets. We are talking about GD sets not bands like ABB or you have to include Phish. I do think JRAD late night is a serious draw. I know you don't make it out to late night but trust me those shows were WELL attended and were major draws for my group of friends as are this years. With all that in mind here is the revised list. The point being that from my perspective there has been relatively the same GD quotient every year and any claim that Lockn got away from being Dead-centric are inaccurate.
2013 – L1 (4 GD sets)
Furthur – 4X
2014 – L2 (5 GD sets)
RatBob – 2X
Furthur
Phil & Friends – 2X
2015 – L3 (3 GD sets)
Billy & the Kids
Phil & Friends – 2X
2016 – L4 (4 GD sets)
Phil & Friends – 2X
JRAD – 2X
2017 – L5 (5 GD sets)
Phil & Bob Terrapin
Phil & Family
phil.moe.
JRAD – 2X
This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
What happens if I take both?
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Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 21, 2017 20:02:07 GMT -5
suebhunny, mccjeff, and 4 more like this
Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 20:02:07 GMT -5
tinishack
Long Distance Runner
Posts: 202
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: ABB 50th Celebration
Number of LOCKNs attended: 5
Post by tinishack on Jul 21, 2017 20:09:48 GMT -5
I like Phish but, the biggest draws for me last year were 2 x JRAD and MMJ in that order.I agree about the morning sets. We are talking about GD sets not bands like ABB or you have to include Phish. I do think JRAD late night is a serious draw. I know you don't make it out to late night but trust me those shows were WELL attended and were major draws for my group of friends as are this years. With all that in mind here is the revised list. The point being that from my perspective there has been relatively the same GD quotient every year and any claim that Lockn got away from being Dead-centric are inaccurate.
2013 – L1 (4 GD sets)
Furthur – 4X
2014 – L2 (5 GD sets)
RatBob – 2X
Furthur
Phil & Friends – 2X
2015 – L3 (3 GD sets)
Billy & the Kids
Phil & Friends – 2X
2016 – L4 (4 GD sets)
Phil & Friends – 2X
JRAD – 2X
2017 – L5 (5 GD sets)
Phil & Bob Terrapins
Phil & Family
phil.moe.
JRAD – 2X
And, I was very happy to see JRAD back this year (and WSP et all)
thelizard
Old Head
This is so much FUN!!
Posts: 1,799
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Neil Young
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by thelizard on Jul 21, 2017 20:30:48 GMT -5
JRAD is what I'm most excited to see. Was listening to a 2016 show with Bob Weir sitting in and playing one of the new Josh Ritter songs from his album.
I'm now expecting him to sit in with JRAD a bit. Which is sad because if it doesn't happen I'll be kinda disappointed.
I'm not signing this!
Jdavidian
Long Distance Runner
Posts: 342
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company or Ratdog..
Number of LOCKNs attended: 5
Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 22, 2017 11:24:52 GMT -5
jrtmom and thelizard like this
Post by Jdavidian on Jul 22, 2017 11:24:52 GMT -5
WIDESPREAD PANIC!!! Bahaha I love that guy!The first year of Lockn' they hired a private security firm. Remember the mounted red shirts?
Wilmington,NC Lockn' represent!
smosey wales
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Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 22, 2017 13:25:02 GMT -5
I agree with everything you said.I agree about the morning sets. We are talking about GD sets not bands like ABB or you have to include Phish. I do think JRAD late night is a serious draw. I know you don't make it out to late night but trust me those shows were WELL attended and were major draws for my group of friends as are this years. With all that in mind here is the revised list. The point being that from my perspective there has been relatively the same GD quotient every year and any claim that Lockn got away from being Dead-centric are inaccurate.
2013 – L1 (4 GD sets)
Furthur – 4X
2014 – L2 (5 GD sets)
RatBob – 2X
Furthur
Phil & Friends – 2X
2015 – L3 (3 GD sets)
Billy & the Kids
Phil & Friends – 2X
2016 – L4 (4 GD sets)
Phil & Friends – 2X
JRAD – 2X
2017 – L5 (5 GD sets)
Phil & Bob Terrapin
Phil & Family
phil.moe.
JRAD – 2X
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by southernman on Jul 31, 2017 14:22:20 GMT -5
So the EMS "controversy" hit the local alt-weekly (Cville Weekly) this week:
www.c-ville.com/fired-wintergreen-chief-trashes-lockn-uva-medical/#.WX-Cx4grJPY
I know this has blown over but two money quotes I found interesting in the article:
This year’s August 24-27 festival doesn’t have headliners like the Dead, the Who or Bob Seeger who have taken the stage in the past, says Frey. That’s why he anticipates a smaller festival of around 15,000 instead of around 30,000.
I must have missed that year...
“Wintergreen is a for-profit EMS,” says Frey.
I did not know that and it makes me much, much less sympathetic to any sort of argument from them.
TOO $
Cowboy Neal
Posts: 12,507
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by TOO $ on Jul 31, 2017 14:35:53 GMT -5
That is such poor journalism because you KNOW that Frey did not say that...
This year’s August 24-27 festival doesn’t have headliners like the Dead, the Who or Bob Seeger who have taken the stage in the past, says Frey.
Did I mention I'm Greek?
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 31, 2017 14:40:42 GMT -5
there was an attempt to get the Who at Lockn' this year. Don't know about Bob Seeger.
But there are other inaccuracies in the Cville Weekly story, so who knows what was really said.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by southernman on Jul 31, 2017 14:49:50 GMT -5
Or its poor reporting and the quote is inaccurate. Jul 31, 2017 14:48:40 GMT -5 @endless said:Frey is lying. From the Wintergreen website:So the EMS "controversy" hit the local alt-weekly (Cville Weekly) this week:
www.c-ville.com/fired-wintergreen-chief-trashes-lockn-uva-medical/#.WX-Cx4grJPY
I know this has blown over but two money quotes I found interesting in the article:
This year’s August 24-27 festival doesn’t have headliners like the Dead, the Who or Bob Seeger who have taken the stage in the past, says Frey. That’s why he anticipates a smaller festival of around 15,000 instead of around 30,000.
I must have missed that year...
“Wintergreen is a for-profit EMS,” says Frey.
I did not know that and it makes me much, much less sympathetic to any sort of argument from them.
A
"The Rescue Squad is a nonprofit 501c3 organization comprised of approximately 30 volunteers. The organization meets on the second Tuesday of every month. Volunteers are trained from the level of driver all the way up to Paramedic. Every ambulance which responds from Wintergreen Rescue will have at least one volunteer on board. Frequently, during ski season when call volumes are high, ambulances will be staffed with all-volunteer crews."
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 31, 2017 15:03:51 GMT -5
Or just mistaken--but I think Southern's theory is more likely. That's one poorly written article even without knowing something of the subject. Oh well, typical for an "alt daily".
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by southernman on Jul 31, 2017 15:25:38 GMT -5
Jul 31, 2017 15:13:47 GMT -5 @endless said:Mistaken? He's done business with them for four years.Or just mistaken--but I think Southern's theory is more likely. That's one poorly written article even without knowing something of the subject. Oh well, typical for an "alt daily".
Yeah, but he has curated the lineup for four years and listed three headliners that have never played.
It's an alt-weekly for the record. I think a lot of their reporting is pretty good but that article was really, really bad.
Post by StillLifeStillDead on Jul 31, 2017 16:17:02 GMT -5
Fun Facts:
Wintergreen Fire & Rescue is indeed a non-profit, 501c3, organization(s). It is owned and operated by the Wintergreen Property Owners Association, a resort property management corporation which is itself a non-profit. That does not mean it never has a taxable surplus of funds.
However, it provides services to the balance of Nelson County, et al. as a contractor. That does not mean that contracts must be 'at cost'. It could very well mean, and likely does mean, that any margin defers the costs at the 'parent' level such that it maintains its non-profit status.
I really know nothing about this issue but suspect both comments were meant to be true. This has just become an emotional issue.
Well, this might explain the new layout...
Jul 31, 2017 17:50:40 GMT -5
via mobile
buddy74 and hondo like this
Post by Flufhead on Jul 31, 2017 17:50:40 GMT -5
As long as the cops aren't volunteers and pissed. 😝
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Jul 31, 2017 22:28:54 GMT -5
cops aren't volunteers; they are booking overtime. Most would just as soon avoid controversy.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
Post by Flufhead on Aug 1, 2017 6:12:29 GMT -5
I was kidding. Is there even such thing as volunteer cops? I mean I could try to make a citizen's arrest at the fest but I'd be giggling too loud.
smosey wales
Merry Prankster
Disguised as a squirrel
Posts: 14,657
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6
Post by smosey wales on Aug 1, 2017 6:14:32 GMT -5
then I'd make a citizen's escape.
Too late to die young
Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB
thelizard
Old Head
This is so much FUN!!
Posts: 1,799
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Neil Young
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7
Post by thelizard on Aug 2, 2017 9:56:01 GMT -5
Being a non-profit does NOT mean that you can't accumulate cash. You can charge and make as much money as you want, pay your employees market rates or better, pay your executives exorbitant salaries and have very loosely control expense accounts for employees. It just means you have to file a 990 to list your income sources and expenditures, and you must have some sort of "community service" mission, and some percentage of your expenditures need to be related to that mission. But there is nothing that says you can't take in twice as much money as you spend, and put the balance into the bank, or stock market, or other "investments."Fun Facts:
Wintergreen Fire & Rescue is indeed a non-profit, 501c3, organization(s). It is owned and operated by the Wintergreen Property Owners Association, a resort property management corporation which is itself a non-profit. That does not mean it never has a taxable surplus of funds.
However, it provides services to the balance of Nelson County, et al. as a contractor. That does not mean that contracts must be 'at cost'. It could very well mean, and likely does mean, that any margin defers the costs at the 'parent' level such that it maintains its non-profit status.
I really know nothing about this issue but suspect both comments were meant to be true. This has just become an emotional issue.
Last Edit: Aug 2, 2017 9:57:29 GMT -5 by thelizard
I'm not signing this!
Post by upstatedrew on Aug 17, 2017 0:27:59 GMT -5
font forget Bobby and the avetts
