Advice: don't get your hopes up

worf rat
Old Head

How do you know if hondo's Greek?

Posts: 4,736
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Don't worry, he'll tell you!
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 10, 2015 10:25:09 GMT -5 suebhunny, waycha, and 2 more like this

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Post by worf rat on Sept 10, 2015 10:25:09 GMT -5

About:

Refunds: Lots of us got hosed on some or all Thursday performances in 2013, and a refund was never even apparently considered. Did you read the back of your ticket? Purchase implies that you will hold them responsible for NOTHING. Even if they were negligent. That covers their ass a for a lot more than just force majeure.

Make-up performances: If they couldn't get Neil Young to play after the rhythm guitarist for ONE ( and the best, yes) of 20 or so bands that have backed him up over the years broke his hand, you can probably forget about Little Feat or the Doobies.

However: I'm certain that everybody involved with Lockn' is doing everything they can to get what's salvageable up and running just as fast as they can. I'm also certain that There. Will. Be. Something. Special. No, probably not the core four because (too many) reasons. I'm thinking unannounced surprise guests and the like. At any rate, I think they're gonna try to make it even more one for the ages than it already was. After all, word-of-mouth is the one thing that seriously can hurt even the most protected ass-covered business, so they really need us to come home saying, "Werth it!"

Jeez, when did I become the calm voice of reason?

Last Edit: Sept 10, 2015 10:42:50 GMT -5 by worf rat

He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.

worf rat Old Head How do you know if hondo's Greek? Posts: 4,736 If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Don't worry, he'll tell you! Number of LOCKNs attended: 6	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 10, 2015 10:35:55 GMT -5 ann likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by worf rat on Sept 10, 2015 10:35:55 GMT -5 Sept 10, 2015 10:25:09 GMT -5 worf rat said: Jeez, when did I become the calm voice of reason? Oh yeah...when I made it too my own bed. Privilege check: stay safe out there, folks.
	He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.

smosey wales
Merry Prankster

Disguised as a squirrel

Posts: 14,655

If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 7:20:59 GMT -5

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Post by smosey wales on Sept 15, 2015 7:20:59 GMT -5

I heard a lot of grumblings about refunds or other comp through the weekend, for various reasons.

First, and as you point out, there will not (and IMO should not) be anything for the weather related show/access cancellations. We all share that risk--ticket holders, vendors and promoters. And the way Thursday was a wash-out, it was a good thing they didn't open just for camping then.

Second, the promoters would not be required to refund anything due to things like the RV power facilities being washed out. However, if they were smart, they would do something voluntarily.

Third, there were other failures that had nothing to do with the weather, such as over-selling areas, inadequate toilet facilities everywhere. For the public areas, I don't see any hope of concessions, but promoters should be told they screwed up so they can fix it next year.

But this may pertain only to a few thousand guests, but once again, they failed to provide VIP toilets in car camping, and that is the major thing VIP pays extra for. That was a direct contract failure with no "act of God" excuse, and I hope it can be addressed, but it can be discussed elsewhere since it doesn't involve everyone.

Speaking of toilets, they built a big holding facility on site to handle the pump-outs so the trucks wouldn't have a 2 hour road trip to empty and return. But they filled the 65,000 gallon tank the first day, so had to long-distance haul the next two, slowing the rate of service to failure.

Too late to die young

Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB

southernman
Old Head

Posts: 2,689

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 7:35:55 GMT -5 augustwest, buddy74, and 3 more like this

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Post by southernman on Sept 15, 2015 7:35:55 GMT -5

They don't owe me a thing. I got what I paid for (and more).

The logistics were a little rough, but we were pretty much prepared to be self-sufficient. Lots and lots of camping experience in primitive conditions helps with that.

I am willing to chalk it all up this way...the storm caused problems in many, many areas, but the most important being pretty much tearing down the stage. The site-ops poured their time, money, and energy into fixing the stage and there just was not enough time and manpower to address everything else adequately. So we had no water and about 8 porta-pots for a huge camping area. It's easy to say they should have fixed this but operating in a situation like they were, it is just not that easy. OK, hopefully next year there won't be a huge storm and the logistics should be much better (just back to year 2, which was pretty good would be fine).

Maybe that's too generous an interpretation, but it is the one I am going with.

ann
Dark Star

Posts: 44

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 8:47:30 GMT -5 estprofinhumboldt likes this

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Post by ann on Sept 15, 2015 8:47:30 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 7:35:55 GMT -5 southernman said:

They don't owe me a thing. I got what I paid for (and more).

The logistics were a little rough, but we were pretty much prepared to be self-sufficient. Lots and lots of camping experience in primitive conditions helps with that.

I am willing to chalk it all up this way...the storm caused problems in many, many areas, but the most important being pretty much tearing down the stage. The site-ops poured their time, money, and energy into fixing the stage and there just was not enough time and manpower to address everything else adequately. So we had no water and about 8 porta-pots for a huge camping area. It's easy to say they should have fixed this but operating in a situation like they were, it is just not that easy. OK, hopefully next year there won't be a huge storm and the logistics should be much better (just back to year 2, which was pretty good would be fine).

Maybe that's too generous an interpretation, but it is the one I am going with.

I agree! My husband & I had a running joke all weekend about demanding refunds. While I understand there are certain instances where a refund may be expected, a lot of posts I read on Facebook were just over the top. That and "being Shapiro'd" (which I read somewhere and thought it was hysterical) were our running jokes the entire weekend. HA!

worf rat Old Head How do you know if hondo's Greek? Posts: 4,736 If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Don't worry, he'll tell you! Number of LOCKNs attended: 6	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 9:03:32 GMT -5 Sneake, waycha, and 4 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 9:03:32 GMT -5 sneake can verify that between almost every MD&E performance, I kept shouting: WHO STILL WANTS THAT "PARTIAL REFUND?!"
	He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.

GA_RV_LUMNI
Guest

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 13:52:19 GMT -5

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Post by GA_RV_LUMNI on Sept 15, 2015 13:52:19 GMT -5

I DO! I still want my partial refund for the GA RV campsite that was never supplied with power! Why should the VIPers get refunds for the bathroom situation (which is supposedly what they paid extra for? I thought it was to be close to the action) and the GA RV folks not be entitled to any refund at all? In my mind, the power supplied to the RVs was what I was paying extra for. I could have parked it in car camping and saved a LOT of money. Never saw anyone all weekend who could tell me what was going on with anything related to GA RV. I hope they took down my tag number while I was away from the camper. I still have it and will be including that with my next daily email asking for some kind of refund!

If you do not ask you are not likely to receive, so I am going to keep asking for some money back until they respond in a meaningful way! Then, decisions will be made about whether or not to even consider returning to Lockn' in the future. Too many other great music events around to let things like this prosper if that is how they are going to treat paying customers.

worf rat
Old Head

How do you know if hondo's Greek?

Posts: 4,736
If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Don't worry, he'll tell you!
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 14:01:48 GMT -5 via Tapatalk tugboatcharlie likes this

Quote

Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 14:01:48 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 13:52:19 GMT -5 GA_RV_LUMNI said:

I DO! I still want my partial refund for the GA RV campsite that was never supplied with power! Why should the VIPers get refunds for the bathroom situation (which is supposedly what they paid extra for? I thought it was to be close to the action) and the GA RV folks not be entitled to any refund at all? In my mind, the power supplied to the RVs was what I was paying extra for. I could have parked it in car camping and saved a LOT of money. Never saw anyone all weekend who could tell me what was going on with anything related to GA RV. I hope they took down my tag number while I was away from the camper. I still have it and will be including that with my next daily email asking for some kind of refund!

If you do not ask you are not likely to receive, so I am going to keep asking for some money back until they respond in a meaningful way! Then, decisions will be made about whether or not to even consider returning to Lockn' in the future. Too many other great music events around to let things like this prosper if that is how they are going to treat paying customers.

When I started this thread, I was talking about refunds as a result of missed performances. I had no way of knowing about tangential stuff like generators or bathrooms. It's my understanding (but not guaranteed) that folks in your position will be compensated. I encourage you to persue that.

In the meantime, why don't you create an account and really join the conversation(s)?

He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.

TOO $
Cowboy Neal

Posts: 12,507

If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer
Number of LOCKNs attended: 7

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 14:21:42 GMT -5 buddy74, smosey wales, and 3 more like this

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Post by TOO $ on Sept 15, 2015 14:21:42 GMT -5

Saw this post on FB...

Just got an email that Tickets Today is refunding me for RV camping due to no power. I did not even contact them.

Wow! I must say I am impressed!

Good job Lockn'!

Did I mention I'm Greek?

wizard1 Old Head Posts: 1,295	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 14:25:36 GMT -5 Sneake, TOO $, and 6 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by wizard1 on Sept 15, 2015 14:25:36 GMT -5 Through all the hardships, I had the feeling that they were doing everything they could to do right by us. I will definitely be at the next Lockn

worf rat Old Head How do you know if hondo's Greek? Posts: 4,736 If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Don't worry, he'll tell you! Number of LOCKNs attended: 6	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 14:40:45 GMT -5 via Tapatalk Sneake, TOO $, and 4 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 14:40:45 GMT -5 As long as you all are there, I'll be there. No matter what the lineup.
	He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.

TOO $ Cowboy Neal Posts: 12,507 If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Dead and Company featuring Johnny Slayer Number of LOCKNs attended: 7	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 14:47:10 GMT -5 Sneake, augustwest, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by TOO $ on Sept 15, 2015 14:47:10 GMT -5 Sept 15, 2015 14:40:45 GMT -5 worf rat said: As long as you all are there, I'll be there. No matter what the lineup. Lockn' 4 Lyfe
	Did I mention I'm Greek?

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 15:56:43 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 15:56:43 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 14:47:10 GMT -5 TOO $ said:

Sept 15, 2015 14:40:45 GMT -5 worf rat said:

As long as you all are there, I'll be there. No matter what the lineup.

Lockn' 4 Lyfe

What does life with a y mean? Anyway, that's pretty funny. Got a full year to try another fest.

Deleted
Deleted Member

Posts: 0

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 16:13:11 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 16:13:11 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 13:52:19 GMT -5 GA_RV_LUMNI said:

I DO! I still want my partial refund for the GA RV campsite that was never supplied with power! Why should the VIPers get refunds for the bathroom situation (which is supposedly what they paid extra for? I thought it was to be close to the action) and the GA RV folks not be entitled to any refund at all? In my mind, the power supplied to the RVs was what I was paying extra for. I could have parked it in car camping and saved a LOT of money. Never saw anyone all weekend who could tell me what was going on with anything related to GA RV. I hope they took down my tag number while I was away from the camper. I still have it and will be including that with my next daily email asking for some kind of refund!

If you do not ask you are not likely to receive, so I am going to keep asking for some money back until they respond in a meaningful way! Then, decisions will be made about whether or not to even consider returning to Lockn' in the future. Too many other great music events around to let things like this prosper if that is how they are going to treat paying customers.

You deserve it, we also deserve a refund for Thursday, because it was promised to start thursday and many people had to pay unnecessarily for accommodations that night. Of course I don't expect it. But it's junky. it's like ordering a sandwich and fries and a soda and not getting the soda. Obviously you don't want to pay for the soda, and if a restaurant just stiffed u on it normally you would not so much like the restaurant. There are many apparent die hard lockn fans who don't care at all but honestly there's nothing wrong with getting what you pay for. If the whole show was cancelled who would still say lockn was awesome if they didn't get a refund? Now that would be over the top. U probably will get something and that would be best.

smosey wales
Merry Prankster

Disguised as a squirrel

Posts: 14,655

If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
Number of LOCKNs attended: 6

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5 Sneake, suebhunny, and 4 more like this

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Post by smosey wales on Sept 15, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5

I disagree that anyone should get, much less deserves, a refund due to the weather event; it's a shared risk, no different than a baseball game. The "promise" of a concert had a condition: "weather permitting." No one was stiffed. If you expect 100% certainty, then outdoor activities are not your thing.

But we've discussed that before; we simply have different opinions.

My complaints lie with the failures that would have failed regardless of the weather events.

Too late to die young

Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB

cherryghost
American Beauty

Posts: 800

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 16:49:39 GMT -5 suebhunny and worf rat like this

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Post by cherryghost on Sept 15, 2015 16:49:39 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

I disagree that anyone should get, much less deserves, a refund due to the weather event; it's a shared risk, no different than a baseball game. The "promise" of a concert had a condition: "weather permitting." No one was stiffed. If you expect 100% certainty, then outdoor activities are not your thing.

But we've discussed that before; we simply have different opinions.

My complaints lie with the failures that would have failed regardless of the weather events.

Nailed it Smosey.

Sneake
The Answer Man

Posts: 4,131

If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Shakey Graves
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Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 17:09:54 GMT -5

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Post by Sneake on Sept 15, 2015 17:09:54 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

I disagree that anyone should get, much less deserves, a refund due to the weather event; it's a shared risk, no different than a baseball game. The "promise" of a concert had a condition: "weather permitting." No one was stiffed. If you expect 100% certainty, then outdoor activities are not your thing.

But we've discussed that before; we simply have different opinions.

My complaints lie with the failures that would have failed regardless of the weather events.

_________________________________
We're all here because we're not all there

Deleted
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Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 17:11:30 GMT -5

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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 17:11:30 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

I disagree that anyone should get, much less deserves, a refund due to the weather event; it's a shared risk, no different than a baseball game. The "promise" of a concert had a condition: "weather permitting." No one was stiffed. If you expect 100% certainty, then outdoor activities are not your thing.

But we've discussed that before; we simply have different opinions.

My complaints lie with the failures that would have failed regardless of the weather events.

It was a rain or shine event. Not weather permitting and they are all like that. Regular concerts don't get away with it either. I guess next time they can put on the ticket weather permitting and cancel the whole darn thing without a refund. I would not do it. If two days were blown would it bug you? It's kind of simple but not worth arguing about. It's a really deep scenario to try to understand the importance of a festival gathering versus sub par treatment. You guys seem to love it more than I do and it's strangely fascinating that I even care.

suebhunny Old Head Posts: 2,089 If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Give me TTB or give me death! Number of LOCKNs attended: 3	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 17:50:09 GMT -5 via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by suebhunny on Sept 15, 2015 17:50:09 GMT -5 This was one of those once every 20 years freak storms. The odds of anything like it affecting future Lockn events are unlikely.
	5/24-27 Dark Star Jubilee Legend Valley Thornville OH 6/13-16 Beardfest Hammonton, NJ 7/7 Outlaw Music Fest Hershey PA 7/18-21 4848 Festival Snowshoe WV 8/2-3 Billy Strings Bryce Jordan Center Penn State 8/29-9/2 - Karnival of the Arts (East) Kempton PA 9/19-22 Infamous Weekend Pops Farm VA

buddy74
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If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Carlos Santana
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Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 17:50:31 GMT -5 suebhunny, worf rat, and 1 more like this

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Post by buddy74 on Sept 15, 2015 17:50:31 GMT -5

I see no difference in the Thurs. cancellation and a beach cottage rental getting canceled due to a hurricane. If you don't purchase rental insurance for the cottage you're out your money. Right?

smosey wales
Merry Prankster

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Posts: 14,655

If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Anyone? Anyone?
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Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 18:02:16 GMT -5 Sneake and worf rat like this

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Post by smosey wales on Sept 15, 2015 18:02:16 GMT -5

I know of a whole weekend of Austin City Limits fest being cancelled due to flooding, and a big fest in NY cancelled due to Sandy. Our local Harbor Fest often has half-days shut down due to our summer squalls (and I work the safety boats and see it first hand), similar to last year's short shut-down Saturday night. I'm sure that happens often at any coastal summer events--it doesn't take a big storm to do it.

And a huge part of Nelson County's persona is what happened there in Hurricane Camille; many people think of that any time they hear "Nelson County" still. It wasn't even a hurricane as far as wind speed; just ungodly volumes of rain from the storm. Drowned birds in the trees. 27 inches, and 1% of the county died. It's high on my "risk assessment" about how the event could go; but still I pays my money and I takes my chances, as the saying goes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Camille#Virginia

ETA: In our discussions before Lockn I never mention Camille b/c I don't want people freaking, but I do mention chances of either heavy sudden rain, like we had, or lingering constant rain, which the area gets when a dying hurricane/trop storm goes through. Just reality that those from other parts of the country might not expect.

Last Edit: Sept 16, 2015 6:11:20 GMT -5 by smosey wales

Too late to die young

Feb 12 Billy Strings NFK
Feb 18 Marshall Tucker Band Philly
Feb 25 Marcus King Band NFK
April 6 Rosanne Cash NFK
April 15 James McMurtry NFK
April 20 Little Feat VaBeach
April 21 Blackberry Smoke NFK
July 2 Last Fair Deal w/John K VaB
July 23 Dave Mathews Band VaB
July 26 Robert Earl Keen C'ville
July 28-31 Floyd Fest BFE
Sept 24 Southern Culture on the Skids VaB
Nov 19 Dark Star Norva
Dec 3 Sky Dog VaB

worf rat Old Head How do you know if hondo's Greek? Posts: 4,736 If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Don't worry, he'll tell you! Number of LOCKNs attended: 6	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 15, 2015 18:39:50 GMT -5 via Tapatalk Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 18:39:50 GMT -5 Preach it, smosey!
	He came for the fuckery. He stayed for the love.

estprofinhumboldt
Old Head

Posts: 1,895

If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Railroad Earth
Number of LOCKNs attended: 2

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 16, 2015 9:33:52 GMT -5 via mobile suebhunny likes this

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Post by estprofinhumboldt on Sept 16, 2015 9:33:52 GMT -5

Sept 15, 2015 18:02:16 GMT -5 smosey wales said:

I know of a whole weekend of Austin City Limits fest being cancelled due to flooding, and a big fest in NY cancelled due to Sandy. Our local Harbor Fest often has half-days shut down due to our summer squalls (and I work the safety boats and see it first hand), similar to last year's short shut-down Saturday night. I'm sure that happens often at any coastal summer events--it doesn't take a big storm to do it.

And a huge part of Nelson County's persona is what happened there in Hurricane Camille; many people think of that any time they hear "Nelson County" still. It wasn't even a hurricane as far as wind speed; just ungodly volumes of rain from the storm. Drowned birds in the trees. 27 inches, and 1% of the county died. It's high on my "risk assessment" about how the event could go; but still I pays my money and I takes my chances, as the saying goes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Camille#Virginia

ETA: In our discussions before Lockn I never mention Camille b/c I don't want people freaking, but I do mention chances of either heavy sudden rain, like we had, or lingering constant rain, which the area gets when a dying hurricane/trop storm goes through. Just reality that those from other parts of the country might not expect.

I stick to earthquakes

feel your way back the day before

estprofinhumboldt
Old Head

Posts: 1,895

If I could add one artist to the 2023 lineup: Railroad Earth
Number of LOCKNs attended: 2

Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 16, 2015 9:35:33 GMT -5 via mobile

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Post by estprofinhumboldt on Sept 16, 2015 9:35:33 GMT -5

Sept 10, 2015 10:25:09 GMT -5 worf rat said:

About:

Refunds: Lots of us got hosed on some or all Thursday performances in 2013, and a refund was never even apparently considered. Did you read the back of your ticket? Purchase implies that you will hold them responsible for NOTHING. Even if they were negligent. That covers their ass a for a lot more than just force majeure.

Make-up performances: If they couldn't get Neil Young to play after the rhythm guitarist for ONE ( and the best, yes) of 20 or so bands that have backed him up over the years broke his hand, you can probably forget about Little Feat or the Doobies.

However: I'm certain that everybody involved with Lockn' is doing everything they can to get what's salvageable up and running just as fast as they can. I'm also certain that There. Will. Be. Something. Special. No, probably not the core four because (too many) reasons. I'm thinking unannounced surprise guests and the like. At any rate, I think they're gonna try to make it even more one for the ages than it already was. After all, word-of-mouth is the one thing that seriously can hurt even the most protected ass-covered business, so they really need us to come home saying, "Werth it!"

Jeez, when did I become the calm voice of reason?

as long as I've known you

feel your way back the day before

me Guest	Advice: don't get your hopes up Sept 16, 2015 11:50:45 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by me on Sept 16, 2015 11:50:45 GMT -5 I did read the back of the ticket and it actually says we are entitled to a refund due to cancelled performances within 60 days. Did you read it? There were no special treats or performances either.

Advice: don't get your hopes up

Post by worf rat on Sept 10, 2015 10:25:09 GMT -5

Post by worf rat on Sept 10, 2015 10:35:55 GMT -5

Post by smosey wales on Sept 15, 2015 7:20:59 GMT -5

Post by southernman on Sept 15, 2015 7:35:55 GMT -5

Post by ann on Sept 15, 2015 8:47:30 GMT -5

Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 9:03:32 GMT -5

Post by GA_RV_LUMNI on Sept 15, 2015 13:52:19 GMT -5

Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 14:01:48 GMT -5

Post by TOO $ on Sept 15, 2015 14:21:42 GMT -5

Post by wizard1 on Sept 15, 2015 14:25:36 GMT -5

Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 14:40:45 GMT -5

Post by TOO $ on Sept 15, 2015 14:47:10 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 15:56:43 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 16:13:11 GMT -5

Post by smosey wales on Sept 15, 2015 16:34:46 GMT -5

Post by cherryghost on Sept 15, 2015 16:49:39 GMT -5

Post by Sneake on Sept 15, 2015 17:09:54 GMT -5

Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 17:11:30 GMT -5

Post by suebhunny on Sept 15, 2015 17:50:09 GMT -5

Post by buddy74 on Sept 15, 2015 17:50:31 GMT -5

Post by smosey wales on Sept 15, 2015 18:02:16 GMT -5

Post by worf rat on Sept 15, 2015 18:39:50 GMT -5

Post by estprofinhumboldt on Sept 16, 2015 9:33:52 GMT -5

Post by estprofinhumboldt on Sept 16, 2015 9:35:33 GMT -5

Post by me on Sept 16, 2015 11:50:45 GMT -5